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Tommy-boy
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1922
Location: Suburbs of Philly
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 Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:09 am Post subject: Grand 3 vs Ivory |
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Anybody have both of these VSTis? If so, how do they compare? I'm currently using Ivory - and am still looking for a better piano VSTi. I realize that "better" is subjective.
How is the resonance between notes on the Grand?
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Roca
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 117
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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I will lke to know about these two vsti.
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JiovanniBenussi
Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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So, you two are looking for the best definitive piano library ever produced?
There is nothing better than East West Quantum Leap Pianos (full edition)
-Bosi Imperial Grand, Yamaha C7, Steinway D, and a BechStein 280
-3 mic positions: Player, Close, and Room...
-24bit uncompressed samples with everything imaginable.
The sound quality to date is just unrivaled, unparalleled...
I completely realise sound quality is considered a subjective thing and is dependent on the listener
BUT,
Believe me (as a matter of fact) when I say that this library is THE Piano library of all Piano libraries!!!
Right now (until Dec 31st) they are having a Holiday 2 for 2 special!!! |
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Jake68
Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JiovanniBenussi wrote: | So, you two are looking for the best definitive piano library ever produced?
There is nothing better than East West Quantum Leap Pianos (full edition)
-Bosi Imperial Grand, Yamaha C7, Steinway D, and a BechStein 280
-3 mic positions: Player, Close, and Room...
-24bit uncompressed samples with everything imaginable.
The sound quality to date is just unrivalled, unparalleled...
I completely realise sound quality is considered a subjective thing and is dependent on the listener
BUT,
Believe me (as a matter of fact) when I say that this library is THE Piano library of all Piano libraries!!!
Right now (until Dec 31st) they are having a Holiday 2 for 2 special!!! |
I gotta say, I disagree, although it is subjective totally.
I just gotta love the examples on the east west site, I actually downloaded the mp3's from their site, which for me totally reveal the superiority of the natural sound of Ivory. Against the hard and obviously sampled sound of the East West Piano's.
I have a track recorded with Ivory in a mates suite, and at then end of the track there is a sustained note that lifts off, with the the hammers returning to the strings. The entire "deceit", is fantastic.
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Roca
Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 117
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Well I am interested in The Grand 3 or Ivory. Anyone that have used both? how do they compare? thanks
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Robin Heuristic
Senior Member
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1553
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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A decent piano VST is on my list also, so I'd be curious to see what comes of this thread... despite it being rather subjective, it might be revealing from a cost vs. quality perspective, and as I don't have bags of money, this is something always near and dear to my heart!
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Kahlbert
Grand Senior Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 3565
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Too subjective to judge, actually.
In my taste (being also a piano player), Ivory is simply fantastic. The Grand never came even close, although I admit I haven't really heard v3 yet.
Also, a new version of Ivory has been announced to even improve the realism. 
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Robin Heuristic
Senior Member
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1553
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Kahlbert wrote: | Too subjective to judge, actually.
In my taste (being also a piano player), Ivory is simply fantastic. The Grand never came even close, although I admit I haven't really heard v3 yet.
Also, a new version of Ivory has been announced to even improve the realism. |
I now wonder also what bearing your midi controller may have over the effectiveness of these virtual pianos.... is this actually a factor?
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Kahlbert
Grand Senior Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 3565
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Absolutely. Even more, of course, your ability to play the piano like a piano player would.  |
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Robin Heuristic
Senior Member
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1553
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Kahlbert wrote: | | Absolutely. Even more, of course, your ability to play the piano like a piano player would. |
Too true!
A liltte OT, but has anyone tried out Pianoteq?
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composingkeys3
New Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2009
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Ivory is a great virtual instrument because the samples themselves are so clean and rich. Plus, the interface is very simple to adjust parameters to get the kind of tone you want from the 3 pianos which are Steinway D, Yamaha C7, and Bosendorfer. There are many patches to choose from and performance is great across many kinds of systems.
If you buy Ivory now, you will also be able to upgrade to Ivory 2 when it becomes available later this year. Some key features that Ivory 2 brings is Sympathetic String Resonance, Half Pedaling, and up to 18 velocity layers on the pianos. More information on Ivory 2 can be found here: http://www.ilio.com/features/news/ivory2up.html
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davedvdy
New Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Jake68 wrote: | | JiovanniBenussi wrote: | So, you two are looking for the best definitive piano library ever produced?
There is nothing better than East West Quantum Leap Pianos (full edition)
-Bosi Imperial Grand, Yamaha C7, Steinway D, and a BechStein 280
-3 mic positions: Player, Close, and Room...
-24bit uncompressed samples with everything imaginable.
The sound quality to date is just unrivalled, unparalleled...
I completely realise sound quality is considered a subjective thing and is dependent on the listener
BUT,
Believe me (as a matter of fact) when I say that this library is THE Piano library of all Piano libraries!!!
Right now (until Dec 31st) they are having a Holiday 2 for 2 special!!! |
I gotta say, I disagree, although it is subjective totally.
I just gotta love the examples on the east west site, I actually downloaded the mp3's from their site, which for me totally reveal the superiority of the natural sound of Ivory. Against the hard and obviously sampled sound of the East West Piano's.
I have a track recorded with Ivory in a mates suite, and at then end of the track there is a sustained note that lifts off, with the the hammers returning to the strings. The entire "deceit", is fantastic. |
Quantum Leap Pianos rubs some people the wrong way due to the mics used, and I do agree that tone is subjective, some may stick to Ivory. However, it is a known fact that there is a lot more attention to detail that comes
through in all of the pianos in Quantum Leap.The quality of the samples are probably more meticulous in Ivory, the pianos sound more neutral/less colored from the mics, so some may still prefer it for those reasons. Quantum Leap is said to be "the heavyweight"...I know I lost quite a bit of sleep installing it, lol. Some may stick to Ivory, but I've found most who own both libraries, don't use Ivory as much or not at all (including myself). I still use the Ivory Yamaha C7 and would use the Italian Grand.. The pianos in Quantum Leap are much fuller, I hear MUCH more of the soundboards...more dimension to the sound, and the pianos are way fuller. Ivory 2 may be better, it's hard to tell from the online Youtube style demo video I saw, even though it sounded great. I hope it will out due Quantum Leap, because Sympathetic String resonance is a very good feature to have for piano realism!
The Ivory Steinway gives me some of the Steinway personality, but when I load patches from Quantum Leap, I get much more of it. The only "weak link" in the library would be the Quantum Leap Yamaha C7 (gets bright real quick...maybe good for pop or rock). The thing I love about Quantum Leap is that if you don't like one mic position, you can take it out altogether, or mix it with another mic position to get the balance you are looking for. Both libraries lack sympathetic string resonance, which will be available on Ivory 2 and Alicia's Keys.
Ivory is a good collection, IMO, but the Ivory Bosendorfer is off, and it opens up too quickly regardless of velocity curve adjustments and lacks proper tonal balance. I hope they adjusted this with the added sample layers, and the "makeover" for version 2. I personally didn't even enjoy playing a virtual Bosendorfer until I used the Quantum Leap one. Having said that, Ivory can get by on much less CPU power, and half the RAM. HOWEVER, I think it's safe to assume that Ivory 2's requirements will change though, with the added velocity layers and other great refinements it will be receiving.
Alicia's Keys Virtual Piano is coming out at the end of this month, and looks very promising, as well. 1 Yamaha Piano, but It was developed in conjunction with SCARBEE which is known for putting out reputable virtual instruments. |
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JiovanniBenussi
Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| davedvdy wrote: | | Jake68 wrote: | | JiovanniBenussi wrote: | So, you two are looking for the best definitive piano library ever produced?
There is nothing better than East West Quantum Leap Pianos (full edition)
-Bosi Imperial Grand, Yamaha C7, Steinway D, and a BechStein 280
-3 mic positions: Player, Close, and Room...
-24bit uncompressed samples with everything imaginable.
The sound quality to date is just unrivalled, unparalleled...
I completely realise sound quality is considered a subjective thing and is dependent on the listener
BUT,
Believe me (as a matter of fact) when I say that this library is THE Piano library of all Piano libraries!!!
Right now (until Dec 31st) they are having a Holiday 2 for 2 special!!! |
I gotta say, I disagree, although it is subjective totally.
I just gotta love the examples on the east west site, I actually downloaded the mp3's from their site, which for me totally reveal the superiority of the natural sound of Ivory. Against the hard and obviously sampled sound of the East West Piano's.
I have a track recorded with Ivory in a mates suite, and at then end of the track there is a sustained note that lifts off, with the the hammers returning to the strings. The entire "deceit", is fantastic. |
Quantum Leap Pianos rubs some people the wrong way due to the mics used, and I do agree that tone is subjective, some may stick to Ivory. However, it is a known fact that there is a lot more attention to detail that comes
through in all of the pianos in Quantum Leap.The quality of the samples are probably more meticulous in Ivory, the pianos sound more neutral/less colored from the mics, so some may still prefer it for those reasons. Quantum Leap is said to be "the heavyweight"...I know I lost quite a bit of sleep installing it, lol. Some may stick to Ivory, but I've found most who own both libraries, don't use Ivory as much or not at all (including myself). I still use the Ivory Yamaha C7 and would use the Italian Grand.. The pianos in Quantum Leap are much fuller, I hear MUCH more of the soundboards...more dimension to the sound, and the pianos are way fuller. Ivory 2 may be better, it's hard to tell from the online Youtube style demo video I saw, even though it sounded great. I hope it will out due Quantum Leap, because Sympathetic String resonance is a very good feature to have for piano realism!
The Ivory Steinway gives me some of the Steinway personality, but when I load patches from Quantum Leap, I get much more of it. The only "weak link" in the library would be the Quantum Leap Yamaha C7 (gets bright real quick...maybe good for pop or rock). The thing I love about Quantum Leap is that if you don't like one mic position, you can take it out altogether, or mix it with another mic position to get the balance you are looking for. Both libraries lack sympathetic string resonance, which will be available on Ivory 2 and Alicia's Keys.
Ivory is a good collection, IMO, but the Ivory Bosendorfer is off, and it opens up too quickly regardless of velocity curve adjustments and lacks proper tonal balance. I hope they adjusted this with the added sample layers, and the "makeover" for version 2. I personally didn't even enjoy playing a virtual Bosendorfer until I used the Quantum Leap one. Having said that, Ivory can get by on much less CPU power, and half the RAM. HOWEVER, I think it's safe to assume that Ivory 2's requirements will change though, with the added velocity layers and other great refinements it will be receiving.
Alicia's Keys Virtual Piano is coming out at the end of this month, and looks very promising, as well. 1 Yamaha Piano, but It was developed in conjunction with SCARBEE which is known for putting out reputable virtual instruments. |
A couple of things...I'm definitely not a fanboy of any maker of software.
A superior product gets my stamp of approval and purchase IF it truly is worth it...
Since this is the internet I wouldn't doubt that my statements don't make headlines, lol 
However SOUND, to me means being able to faithfully reproduce (as closely as possible) a REAL piano.
Not an upright Knabe piano but the genuine pianos offered in EWQL's library.
I come from playing real pianos, and FWIW I've played all pianos listed except the Bechstein.
I do admit I haven't heard Ivory in full glory as in installing the VST software...but I did play it
using the try before you buy method and listening to the audio demos.
There is just something missing with Ivory.
I think the Alicia Keys NI VST will be a success.
It will be light.
Not all velocity samples are in this library but thats the point.
The piano is modeled after Allicia's playing style.
I love the demos and to me, it sounds real, more so than Ivory. |
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davedvdy
New Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: |
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I agree, and I can see how you would believe that with EWQLP...great library. The Play software engine is still buggy though, which can sometimes be frustrating, I hope they do further updates.
I do love the Ivory Italian Grand, though...played it at my sister's wedding, and it worked flawlessly on my old Powerbook G4...the only library that will! The Fazioli has a bright and beautiful sound, IMO, very articulate.
Alicia Keys said in her video that they sampled her piano pedal up and down w/12 velocity layers. It's good to see someone else believe that it looks promising!
Have you tried the new version of the Vienna Instruments Imperial yet? 100 velocity layers sampled per note using some CEUS technology method?
Comes w/the price tag...just that grand is $800. The Bosendorfer they sampled previously only had like 7 or 8 velocity layers, so they went full out this time, lol. |
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stevie97
New Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: Ever checked out Imperfect Samples? |
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Ok I like to throw in a new player in this field of endless pianos. What I (and I assume many) are mostly looking for is a piano library that performs as an instrument. Certainly in recent years it all came down to more articulations and samples, more mic positions etc. This is certainly a good move as computers get more powerful and large libraire can be used within a sequencer. However what I am missing is the "human" touch in all that it is still sterile in many areas (though I know many will disagree). I cam across the Imperfect Samples pianos from matt Stedeford in the Uk and I must say he recognizes what has been missing so far. As he states:
"The human brain is sensitive to the differences between an organic recording vs. a quantized sequenced track. This is a common problem with sequenced acoustic music. Many perfect commercial sample libraries can often sound midi-like, due to their perfect performance. When an imperfect sample library, is sequenced, the result is a hyper-realistic organic recording."
he released two pianos so far with this in kind his Hohner Baby White Grand and the Schimmel Braunschweig Upright piano. Both affordable though with many details. There is a third very large one coming the Fazioli, once considered the most expensive piano ever manufactured....
I suggest you try and listen to the demos yourself here at the US distribution site for his products (for example) under www.bettermusicdistribution.com
Just my thoughts to throw in a new aspect (and new pianos as everyone makes a Steinway and a Bosendorfer.....)
| davedvdy wrote: | I agree, and I can see how you would believe that with EWQLP...great library. The Play software engine is still buggy though, which can sometimes be frustrating, I hope they do further updates.
I do love the Ivory Italian Grand, though...played it at my sister's wedding, and it worked flawlessly on my old Powerbook G4...the only library that will! The Fazioli has a bright and beautiful sound, IMO, very articulate.
Alicia Keys said in her video that they sampled her piano pedal up and down w/12 velocity layers. It's good to see someone else believe that it looks promising!
Have you tried the new version of the Vienna Instruments Imperial yet? 100 velocity layers sampled per note using some CEUS technology method?
Comes w/the price tag...just that grand is $800. The Bosendorfer they sampled previously only had like 7 or 8 velocity layers, so they went full out this time, lol. |
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Kahlbert
Grand Senior Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 3565
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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EXS24 and Kontakt (full version) only? 
The demos sound very promising, though. Maybe a decent format is coming one day ... |
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